How to avoid the data dump and be persuasive

Business presentation is all about persuasion.

I recently worked with a client who had a tough sell. He needed to persuade his leadership team and board to spend a lot more money on a project they’d already sunk a lot of money into. He faced scepticism and hard questions. He had minimal amount of time to get his point across.

His answer: use more data! Rely on the numbers. More graphs. More statistics.

You won’t be surprised that I suggested another approach. Sure, we need the financials and the metrics. But if you want people to change their view or get excited, we need to engage their emotions. We need to think of our audience first, and us, second.

How storytelling persuades

Business presentation is all about persuasion. A company presents itself to a customer to persuade them to buy their product. A project leader presents plans to the management to persuade them that the strategy will work.

But when you use slides laden with bullet-points these aren’t focused on the audience. Instead, they’re supporting the case of the presenter. And audiences know this.

They also know when they aren’t being shown the complete picture – but cherry-picked figures. Audiences are more likely to listen if you take a narrative approach, relying on logic and emotion, while building your case. Make your story come to life, bring in colour.

If you’re talking about a future project you often need to describe the present (where you are) and the future (where you want to be) and shift between the two – all the while showing what’s at stake if you do nothing.

5 reasons to combine storytelling with business presentations 

  1. Storytelling can show the audience qualitative information that cannot be laid out through bullet-points and numbers.   
  2. It can paint a full picture of both the positives and negatives of any business challenges. Not just the good ones. 
  3. Narratives show a complete process of a business strategy. From its inception to the final implementation plans. 
  4. Storytelling appeals to how we think. According to Princeton’s Uri Hasson, ‘By simply telling a story, a person could plant ideas, thoughts and emotions into the listeners’ brains.’ 
  5. Through storytelling, the teller and listener synchronise their mindsets in an extraordinary process called neural coupling. 

Any business presentation’s ultimate goal is to convince the audience. This is why we need to harness the power of words not just numbers.

Photo by Evgeny Atamanenko

5 Ways to Spice Up Your Stories

5 ways to spice, to spice up your stories

When my first book, Last Seen in Lhasa,was published I had a publicity schedule as long as my arm. The first 60-min interview was with the ABC radio host, gravelly-voiced Richard Fidler. The first thing Richard advised: “use word pictures”.

It’s advice I’ve never forgotten… Nor should you. And nor, it seems, has Steven Lewis from Taleist the Australian copywriting agency. Steven just sent me a re-mastered interview I did for his podcast sharing my top novelist’s tips to make business storytelling memorable. 

[bctt tweet=”[bctt tweet=”‘Good stories surprise us. They make us think and feel.’ -Joe Lazauskas and Shane Snow” via=”no”]

5 top storytelling tips to keep listeners awake:

  1. Bring your stories to lifewith the 5 senses.
  2. Make your characters realby including their names and titles. 
  3. Use ‘word pictures’– so your listener can see, feel and imagine what you’re describing. 
  4. Use genuine dialogue because real people speak in real sentences. 
  5. Surprise! Add something unexpected to your story. 

And, I got a surprise myself when I re-listened to the interview. A former journalist, Steven knows how to capture attention with a strong hook.

That’s exactly what he does with this interview about storytelling with… erm… me talking about bosoms. Enjoy! 

Click here to listen to the podcast 

Click here for a copy of my book ‘Last Seen in Lhasa’

Why narrative memos focus the mind and mean strategies stick

Narrative memos help focus the mind.

We know the drill. A meeting starts with the presenter taking charge and facilitating bullet-point discussions from powerpoint slides. Or worse, reading directly from the slides that are crammed with too much text and numbers.

Inwardly, there’s a collective groan. A slow death-by-powerpoint.

Amazon takes a different approach. In the 2018 Annual Shareholders report, Jeff Bezos, founder and CEO, admitted they’d scrapped the use of powerpoints during meetings. As he puts it, ‘We write narratively structured six-page memos. We silently read one at the beginning of each meeting in a kind of study hall.’ 

Imagine the scene, the execs are sitting quietly, as if about to start an exam. No-one talks. Kinda defies belief.

Here’s why.

  1. Narrative memos help focus the mind.Participants in meetings are usually distracted by their long to-do list. Often, they bring issues with them as they take a seat.  Yet, when they start to read the memo, they shift their attention to the common agenda at hand.  
  2. Everyone starts on the same page. Bullet-points tend to lead to diverse interpretations. As a result, arguments can dominate meetings instead of a collective goal. 
  3. Narrative strategies stick. Neuroscientists show how the human brain is wired for stories. In our everyday life, we recall and retain events and information because of the stories we hear. This is mirrored in the narrative memo approach. It allows the audience to remember the strategies that management wants its people to remember.

Of course, careful thought needs to go into these narratives.

As Jeff Bezo says,  ‘Great memos are written and rewritten, shared with colleagues who are asked to improve the work, set aside for a couple of days, and then edited again with a fresh mind. They simply can’t be done in a day or two.’

So, when you wonder why nothing happens after your next meeting, why not give it a try? Start small. You don’t need to scribe 6 pages. Try with one narrative page, find the person in your team who enjoys writing and using language. There’s always one. Then introduce it – once a fortnight perhaps – as a pilot and see if you get better results.

Given that Amazon is one of the most successful companies on the planet, there’s likely to be some wisdom behind the approach! 

Thoughts?

How to be an effective leader in a team by using stories

Effective leaders know the importance of a strong and cohesive team

Effective leaders know the importance of a strong and cohesive team. There’s no one-size-fits-all for leaders but a good starting place is to know yourself first – what excites and what motivates you. Reflection helps here. Colleagues you can trust. A good mentor. The ability to stand back and have work-life balance. From there you can build up your own approach – both in leadership and in how you and connect with your team.

The tried-and-trusted way to deepen your connection to your team is through regular group meetings and one-to-one catch ups. More and more leaders are having an ‘open door policy’ to show they’re accessible. Or, an ‘ask-anything-you-want’ lunch once a month.

But whether you do these in person or remotely via web conferencing there’s an all-too-common scenario that plays out.

Before a meeting starts, there’s ease among the group. The atmosphere is relaxed. Everyone is chatting and shooting the breeze. But, when the leader takes centre stage, the natural flow is interrupted. People become stiff or silent. The ‘feedback loop’ between the leader and the group can stop. 

How to shift this? Start each meeting with a story.

Not long. Ideally you want the point of your story to reinforce the point of the meeting – or at least be linked.

Stories place everyone in the room. They move minds. They express emotions. They motivate. They inspire.

5 ways to use a story to kick-start a meeting

  1. Ensure your story makes a point about the broader business topic.A relevance statement is a great place to start. You can then expand to show exactly what you mean. In stories, chronology helps locate people. Use words like ‘before we were doing this’… ‘or then something happens’. 
  2. The devil’s in the details, so be specific.Use data points to back-up your story.
  3. Be concise.Remember that your story is just an introduction to a discussion, so max 3 minutes.
  4. Use a personal story – where appropriate.People tend to relate to a story that has a human touch. However, keep it professional and within the context of your workplace.
  5. Help people visualise your narrative with ‘word-pictures’. The human mind naturally creates images when visual details are presented. This improves comprehension. 

By sharing a story at the start of a meeting you can change the course of the discussion that follows. Thoughts?

We have more ways than ever to communicate, so why are we losing the art?

Good communication is about getting the right information across in the right order.

I was sitting in an Uber a few weeks ago when the driver raised the topic of communication. ‘Young people just don’t know how  to keep a conversation going,’ he said. ‘They’re losing the art.’ I wondered aloud if it’s because they’re distracted, on their phones. ‘No, it’s more than that. It’s like how people communicate is actually changing.’ 
Now, you don’t just notice this with young people. It’s becoming an epidemic in businesses. I find it ironic that in an age where we have more channels than ever to communicate, people and brands struggle to do it well. Often in business, soft skills are viewed one-dimensionally — as just about the words you say. The art of smart communication requires a lot more. 
Conversations make the world go round. It’s how we share knowledge and experiences. How great ideas are spread. How we engage and motivate teams. 

20 ways to improve communication at work and build emotional connection

Content: think about what you want to say.

1. Good communication is about getting the right information across in the right order.Sounds obvious, but if you speak before you think, you’ll probably come across as vague and waffly. The natural order of things is to think first before you speak. Unfortunately, few politicians have heard of this advice.

2. Think about your audience.If you’re talking to a peer about a project you’re both steeped in, it’s okay to use acronyms or shorthand. But if you’re speaking to an external stakeholder, you’ll need more explanation. Don’t assume the other person has the same level of knowledge as you.

3. Business jargon is a no, no.Some of the best communicators of our generation, like Tony Fadell, father of the iPod, breaks down his crazy, amazing, and highly specialised wisdom into bite-sized pieces that we can all understand.

4. If it’s an important conversation, take time to map it out — on paper or in your head.Practise with a trusted colleague or coach. Visualise yourself having the conversation before you actually do so.
Hour-glass communication 

5. The more specialised you are in a subject, the more you’re likely to communicate poorly to people who don’t share that specialisation.This extends point 3 above. One way around this is to always think of your context first, the scene setting, before you dip into the detail. Then choose 2/3 salient examples to illustrate your points, before then going broad again at the end. This way of communicating looks like an hour-glass — you start wide and broad, explain the bigger picture, then go specific — before widening out at the end.

Harness the power of stories

6. Stories can be an excellent way to explain a topic that is difficult to understand, or that requires ‘bringing to life.’ Finance legend, Kathy Murphy, President, Fidelity Personal Investing, is a pro at this. She’s  known for sharing her own stories and experiences to educate people about investments and personal finances. This makes her relatable. Richard Branson does so, too.

7. Our brain loves facts but they can be overwhelming. Facts and figures engage a small area of the brain but stories and metaphors have a way of engaging multiple brain regions that not only stimulate logic but elicit emotional responses. Facts provide a hook for the brain but our colourful word choice is what maintains attention.

8. Structure your stories in such a way so they trigger multi-sensory cortices: motor, visual, olfactory, auditory, etc.Engage the senses by describing how the ‘strong aroma of coffee lifts the spirits’ or how the ‘cool rain on my skin brings back teenage memories.’

9. The best communicators know this template by heart: the template of human drama and the triumph of the indomitable spirit:It starts with facing challenges, overcoming adversity and immortalising the lesson. Make your stories memorable by using this template. Award-winning Kenyan-Mexican actress, Lupita Nyong’o, uses intentional transitions to reveal her own hopes and emotions in order to inspire people.

 

Better delivery: ensure your message cuts through the noise 

10. Good communication requires a whole-brain approach.Great communication requires the heart as well as the head.

11. It’s important to realise that what people don’t say is as important as what they do say.Be aware of the silences, not just the words.

12. According to communication expert, Judy Apps, author of the lyrical, thought-provoking The Art of Communication,our brains have a huge impact on how well we communicate.While the left-brain focuses on words and arguments, and is directed towards an outcome, most elements of communication are right-brain related: meaning, inference, intention, context, tone, facial expression, gesture, humour, irony and metaphor. You need to be aware of both elements.

13. When you communicate succinctly, think about the how — not only the what.Consider body language, gestures, eye contact and facial connection. Avoid negative body language like crossing your arms, keeping your head down, or averting your eyes.

14. Watch for a mismatch between what you’re saying and your body language, people pick up on that. There’s a non-verbal aspect of communicating called subtle non-verbal responses: this is being aware of what else is going on.

15. If you nod ‘yes’ while saying ‘no’ people will think you’re not completely telling the truth. An example of this is the aptly termed ‘duping delight’. It’s when a liar says he didn’t do it but smiles at an inappropriate moment.

16. Dr John Lund, author ofHow to Hug a Porcupine: Dealing With Toxic and Difficult to Love Personalities(now that’s a mouthful!) says people take more cues from what you’re NOT saying versus what you are saying. He goes on:

  • 92 per cent of communication is non-verbal
  • 55 per cent  is based on your facial expressions and your body language
  • 37 per cent  is based on the tone of your voice
  • only 8 per cent is based on the words you say.

17. Think about the place you hold an important conversation.Avoid being somewhere noisy or at the coffee machine. This lets your listener/s know that he/she is important enough to have your undivided attention.

18. Be assertive.This is not about being hostile or contentious. But expressing your feelings confidently, honestly, and openly while being respectful of others. Effective communication isn’t about forcing your opinion on others but trying to understand the other person.

19. Keep stress in check.Speak calmly and strategically, with pauses to collect your thoughts.

20. Your breathing is also part of the way  you communicate. Breathe at a steady pace.

So wherever you are, in an Uber, in a lift, practise some of these skills. Hopefully, you’ll become more equipped to be a better communicator — a skill we’ll all need as we navigate new channels, and move rapidly into voice-first technology. Bring back the art of better conversation. Everyone has a story to tell.

So, will you tell it?

How to Deliver a Kickass Presentation and Live to Tell the Tale

Your presentation doesn’t start when you get on stage. Rather, it starts days, weeks, even months, before. The best presenters will spend hours practising in front of the mirror or to people they trust.

Last week, I delivered a presentation to 100 senior leaders. I always start with a connection story to build rapport with the audience and to reveal something about myself. But finding the right connection story takes time. I’ll usually come up with two or three ideas until I find the one that pops. 

I also have a secret weapon: my wonderful story buddy, Sonya. No, Sonya isn’t a bot. She’s a real person! We help each other hone our stories, test our beginnings and endings, make sure each story has a solid point. 

Four years ago, I would have had a sleepless night before such a presentation but with time and practise, I’m getting more comfortable in front of a business audience. Each time I focus on something different and this time it was to give the group an experience of connection – fast.

When I started, the energy seemed a little flat. Stories can shift that. So, at the last minute, I changed the start of my presentation and after my connection story, I showed a short video, and then asked people to share stories. First in pairs, then in plenary. 

Immediately, people started to engage. To connect. To laugh. Spontaneity helps here. The more spontaneous I can be, the more people respond ‘in the moment’.

At the end of the presentation, I left energised and the room was buzzing. For me, that’s the sign of success — when I connect with the audience and between us, we co-create something new, and this magical feedback loop happens between people. Then everyone’s spirits rise.

So this week it’s all about what you can do to make your presentations crackle, snap and pop.      

Prepare for Success

Your presentation doesn’t start when you get on stage. Rather, it starts days, weeks, even months, before. The best presenters will spend hours practising in front of the mirror or to people they trust.

  • Take time to plan out your presentation.Rather than start with the slides, think about the overall message you are making. What is the one point you want the audience to know? How do you want them to feel when they leave? Work backwards from there.
  • If you’re using slides, don’t cram them with numbers and words.TED Talks will often have only 40 words over 15-20 slides. Yup, you read that right. Each slide only contains one point, sometimes one word, with a photo. 
  • Recognise that presentations take time. Apple spent 250 hours for one 20-minute presentation, from the presentation design, to the technical expertise, to the execs delivering the final presentation.   
  • Think about your beginning.I always encourage people to use a connection story at the start. You want to link the point of this story to the overall presentation so there’s alignment. 
  • Our brains are more active when we hear stories.A powerpoint slide filled with bullet points and text activates only the language-processing centre of the brain, but stories use the whole brain and activate language, sensory, visual and motor areas. 
  • Beforehand video yourself on your smartphone.It’s excruciating but you’ll soon see how you can improve.
  • Time your presentation to ensure you don’t run over.  
  • If it’s a major presentation, practise in front of a colleague or friends.Here are a few good questions to ask them at the end:
    • Do I sound conversational? 
    • Is there enough variety in my tone and pacing?
    • How are the visuals? Do they help or are they distracting?
    • Do I have any annoying traits, like clicking my tongue, swallowing too often, moving side to side, etc.?
    • Any moments where you got bored?

Practise, practise, practise!

Own your audience

There’s no real one-size-fits-all solution to becoming a seasoned presenter, but these tried and tested techniques can ensure that you claim your audience’s attention. 

Let’s count the ways:

  1. Deliver a dose of drama.Your first words could make or break your presentation, so make them as compelling as possible. A little drama never hurts and is a great way to capture attention.
  2. Start right where they are.This ensures that you and your audience are on the same page and they engage straight away.
  3. Spark curiosity.Ask a provocative question or introduce a concept that would create a ‘knowledge gap’ for the audience. It’s your job to fill this gap.
  4. Use visuals.Make your powerpoint zing with a compelling video — this gives you a break from talking and brings in other voices. Also, surprise people with a prop or artefact linked to the presentation.
  5. Tease.Keep the audience interested with a well-placed tease. Indicate where you’re going with the talk without giving too much away.
  6. Introduce concepts one by one.Don’t just dump everything in their laps.
  7. Use metaphors. A timely and appropriate metaphor makes your points digestible and relatable. They’re also remembered better because they connect emotion with logic.

The Big Day

Finally, the day of your presentation is upon you. You’ve got your talk or keynote ready and you’ve rehearsed as much as you can. 

Here are some things to ensure you own that stage:

  • Familiarise yourself with the venue. As well as the technology and the lighting.
  • Check the microphone if you’re using one.Avoid wearing clunky jewellery that could cause unnecessary noise. If you’re using a wireless microphone box, wearing a belt is a great idea.
  • Keep a bottle of water close by.Also keep a copy of your speech or cue cards close as a backup plan.
  • Feel your feet on the ground. Stay grounded.
  • Smile.When you walk on stage, take a moment to smile and make eye contact — at someone you know, or at the audience in general. 
  • Make it like a conversation.When you begin your presentation, imagine you’re having a conversation with a friend.
  • Be mindful of your voice. That’s to say, your pitch, volume, and pace.
  • Be conscious of your breathing and posture.Remember that your body language should be consistent with your message.
  • If you’re moving around the stage, do so with purpose. 
  • If you stumble or forget your words, turn to your backup plan.Apologise and even make a joke. Audiences are usually forgiving. 
  • Keep going. Use your slides or visuals as a guide to keeping you on track.
  • Most importantly, enjoy it!You’ve worked so hard to get to this point. Remember that you’re on stage doing this presentation because you know your stuff. This is your time to shine. 

Any other great tips, let me know. I’m the forever beginner, always learning. 

How Positive Stories Can Help Save the World

Negative vs positive narratives

I don’t know about you, but now, more than ever, climate change seems real. More freak weather events. More protests. Daily news items on the mass extinction of species. In the past year, things have speeded up.

Of course, we’ve known for years what climate change is and how it’s devastating our planet. A good percentage of us know how to mitigate its effects and do our part. Yet, why is it that we’re still so divided on this issue? Why so many non-believers? And why, even amongst those who dobelieve and acknowledge the problem, is there still inaction?

This is a big thorny question. Here in our new Sustainability Corner, we’ll be exploring this issue through a business lens. In particular, we’ll be featuring inspiring stories of individuals and organisations making a difference for the environment.

Because what I’ve realised is that how we talk about this issue, and how the message is shared, matters. It matters a lot.

Negative vs positive narratives

Right now, the predominant narrative theme on climate change is pretty negative. This is no surprise, considering the latest predictions that what we do in the next 10 years will impact the next 10,000 years. Gulp.

However, research has shown that using fear to provoke a behavioural change can be counterproductive. So, when we see visions of scorched earth and plastic-choked wildlife, it makes us anxious. Or worse. People feel depressed, which invariably leads to denial or avoidance of the environmental issues at hand. Similarly, too many facts and numbers can blur on a page, especially in the staggering volume that they are being produced today.

How positive narratives can help

It’s important to go back to our roots and connect with our core humanity. Numerous studies have shown that emotionally engaging stories affect more areas of the brain than data-centric messages ever could.

Without going into the neuroscience of it all, our brain has the unique ability to recognise patterns that help us predict likely outcomes, which makes narratives and storytelling the most elegant and effective way to communicate messages. We’ve been doing it, after all, since our ancestors sat around the campfire tens of thousands of years ago.

In particular, stories that focus on positive outcomes with positive role models can lead to concrete action. They actually get people thinkingabout what they could do and how they should do it. In contrast, negative narratives that convey hopelessness and despair can lead to avoidance and inaction.

This was confirmed at an April workshop I ran for North Sydney Council. For one exercise, community groups came together to create a narrative of change.

One local leader said that, ‘Since the ABC series, War on Waste,  ordinary people have woken up to the impact our daily rubbish is having on the environment. Now they’ve accepted this is a reality, they are able to do something about it. It’s actually empowered them to act.’

That’s certainly true for me. Now I’ve accepted climate change as real, I feel motivated to do something about it. Indeed, positive storytelling is a powerful tool that can help bring about the change that our planet needs, and it’s one that we should use and use well.

As more people and businesses are doing their share, more positive stories are generated… encouraging others to do theirs. So, I encourage you to send in your own stories hereto be featured at Sustainability Corner– inspired by ‘Speaker’s Corner’ at Hyde Park in London where everyone has the chance to stand on his or her soapbox.

Together, let’s do our bit to save the environment, one beautiful story at a time.

How stories improve employee engagement

Welcome to the relaunch of Wordstruck! This is where you can find stories that can help you change how you engage at work. Stories that inspire, persuade and make a difference.

It’s well known that employee engagement is down. I mean really down. A recent Gallup poll put 76% — that’s  8.74M Australian workers — who are not engaged in their job. One solution: use stories in your workplace to communicate what you’re telling your team.

In August I ran a workshop for an IT group in a resource company. Beforehand I was told that the participants were more likely to be introverted and would find telling stories a challenge. Actually, the group couldn’t wait to get started. It reminded me that it’s easy for all of us to have assumptions and to always question those before you meet someone.

During the workshop I asked people to think about a Connection story.This is what you use when you’re first meeting someone or to introduce a presentation. It’s a way to establish rapport and trust quickly. It’s much more effective than just saying who you are and what you do. In the workplace, you make sure that it has a business or relevance point. This keeps it focused and relevant.

One of the participants in the group said that he preferred using numbers and stats rather than using stories. ‘That’s my style and it works for me.’ So, when I asked people to think about a connection story, I was surprised when he raised his hand.

He went on to tell the group how important it is to set goals. ‘I like to play and coach cricket. I was playing against a team a couple of years ago. It was really hot and I could hardly run the length of the pitch. Back then I weighed 150 kilos. I decided I had to change and hired a personal trainer. Together we set goals and eight months later I’d lost 40 kilos and then I went to lose some more. I know that if you are accountable to someone it really works and it’s helped me turn things around.’

The rest of the group went quiet as he talked. At the end, his manager said, ‘I never knew that about you.’ Someone else said, ‘That was brave to tell us that.’

That one story shifted the whole group. It gave other people permission to speak up and it created a deeper sense of connection between everyone in the room.

Now, that’s how you get better engagement.

How details bring stories to life

To bring your stories to life, people need to visualise what you are saying. Back in 2006, my first book, Last Seen in Lhasa, was published. I’d never done any radio interviews before and my publicist sent me a scary publicity schedule. When I went to the ABC offices to give my first interview, my stomach was churning.

I remember fidgeting as I sat in the hot booth waiting for the one-hour live-to-air interview to start. On the line came the gravelly voice of Richard Fidler. He asked if I was ready. Then he said, ‘Remember to answer my questions with word-pictures’.

I’d never heard that phrase before but that piece of advice not only helped me get through the interview, it has stayed with me ever since. Instead of talking with facts, I said things like, ‘As I froze in my gumboots, the Chinese army came swarming over the mountain top.’ The hour flew by and I got great feedback from listeners.

This is just one of several techniques you can use to make your stories more compelling — both in the written format and orally. In a business setting, you don’t need too much ‘colour’, but just a few telling details make all the difference.

5 details to include to make people listen to your stories

1. The name of the person you are referring to. Names are important as we connect with individuals not faceless case studies.

2. Emotions. How did you feel at the moment when your colleague praised you for the report you’d done? How did you feel as you walked out of the lift for your first meeting with your boss? Here, we don’t need a blow-by-blow of every emotion you experienced, but the strongest feeling.

3. Concrete facts. When did the conference take place? Where? Facts help anchor a story. They make it real and tangible. Was it snowing or balmy? Was it on the edge of the city or in the heart of the CBD?

4. The senses. Touch, taste, sound, smell, sight — these connect us to the world, to other people, to experiences. When you evoke one of the senses, it allows the person listening or reading your story to experience it themselves. Again, you don’t need too much, just a sprinkle in the story. Focus on one sense.

5. Chronology. If you are describing a complex series of events a couple of key dates help give the story a timeline. This makes it easier for the listener to make sense of how the events unfolded. It is another way of anchoring us to the crucial moments in your story.

If you want to know other ways to punch up your writing, I’ve done an interview with corporate writer and business book mentor, Steven Lewis from Taleist (below). Like me, Steven has a journalist background, and is an expert in using stories to get his message across.

In the interview I talk more about word pictures. So when you’re thinking of describing someone, perhaps, don’t just have, ‘He walked into the room’ instead have ‘he strode in the room.’ This immediately gives a sense of purpose.

I also discuss how important verbs are to make your stories stronger and how it’s okay to write more than one draft.

So, how do you make your stories more compelling?